Here are a some generalizations/observations that I’ve been thinking about as I’ve watched this discussion take shape.
1. We can no longer talk about a capella Churches of Christ as a uniform group. A “split” has already occurred and created two breeds of Churches of Christ. One group I’ll call “Restorationist” churches of Christ. They are committed to restoring the “ancient order of things” by adhering to the pattern they believe they’ve found in the New Testament. For these churches, a capella worship, weekly communion, and many other things are non-negotiable salvation issues. If you don’t adhere to the “pattern,” then you are not a member of the true church.
The second group I’ll call “Heritage” Churches of Christ. These churches acknowledge their heritage and want to preserve a capella worship and weekly communion, and many other things, not because they’re salvation issues, but because they are important family traditions that shouldn’t be whimsically discarded or because they still have deep theological meaning and can help us stay connected to the Story. They might be open to adding an instrumental service if it makes sense for their mission. It just isn’t an issue anymore. There are a growing number of Churches of Christ that fit into this category. Heritage Churches of Christ have rejected the exclusivism that characterized Churches of Christ in the 20th century and are open to partnerships with other churches, including but not limited to the Independent Christian Churches. There is very little fellowship/partnership occurring between Restorationist and Heritage Churches of Christ. This is mainly because the convictions of the Restorationist churches won’t allow it.
There are also a fair number of Churches of Christ that find themselves caught in between these two groups. They’re trying to stay connected to both and finding it extremely difficult to do so. Eventually, they’ll sort themselves into one group or the other.
Now that I’ve defined my terms, I can get on with my other generalizations/observations.
2. Restorationist churches tend not to have much to say about political/social issues.
3. Heritage Churches of Christ say more than Restorationist churches about political/social issues, but not nearly as much as Independent Christian Churches do.
4. Independent Christian Churches tend to be more politically and socially conservative than Heritage Churches of Christ.
5. Independent Christian Churches are also more theologically conservative than most Heritage Churches of Christ. Restorationist churches will think this statement is absurd because they regard instrumental music as a “liberal” sin.
6. Independent Christian Churches do a pretty good job of expressing their conservative views in a spirit of love.
7. I have a hunch that the loving conservatism in Independent Christian Churches has something to do with their accelerated growth in the last 15 years.
My perspective is limited and I may be way off on some or all of these. They’re conversation starters, not absolute declarations. I’m open to loving debate and correction on all of them.
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
Wade,
I have read most of the conversations in the previous post and I would say that your assessment is pretty much on target. I think your general categories are mostly on target. I still travel in most of these worlds. I have spoken, do speak in traditional, heritage and independent Christian Churches.
I talked with a brother last night who was referring to someone from a Pentecostal background. He started by saying this person was from the Pentecostal church, then he corrected himself and said that he was from the Pentecostal organization, afterall, it’s not really the church. This kind of exclusive talk is what I wish we could move beyond in churches of Christ/Christian Churches.
The bottom line of our salvation is grace through faith. God has made it clear in Scripture that the only way he accepts us is through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. When we stand before him in judgment, he will receive us because we are his children by grace, not because we lived perfectly or had all the right teaching. If our acceptance or rejection of others is based on any other criteria, we are essentially proclaiming that we only have it right and we are perfect in our understanding of what God wants from us both in life and teaching. This, of course, is an arrogant, prideful, attitude that is everywhere condemned in Scritpure.
When I understand God in Scripture I find that no one is more forgiving and accepting of all people than God. Even in my most forgiving and loving moments, I will never begin to be as accepting of people as God is. That’s why I will never judge another human being’s religious beliefs or experiences. I long to have fellowship with all those who call Jesus Lord and are producing the fruits of his Spirit.
Believers who are far removed, either by age or religious heritage, from all of the wranglings that have come from the restoration movement, don’t understand why we can’t get beyond our sectarian attitudes and spirit. They look at our movement, a movement that divided into at least 7 or 8 major factions (dozens of smaller factions) and find it humorous that this same movement can claim to be the church of the Bible or a movement that believes in the unity of all believers.
The wonderful news of God’s grace is that he receives all of us with our faults, heritage churches, traditional churches, independent Christian Churches, one cuppers, no Sunday school, no fellowship hall, King James Only, ICC, school of preaching grads, Christian College/University grads, a cappella, instrumental, and _______________ you fill in the blank.
My heart aches when I see us hack and slash at each other as we have done for at least 100 years of our existence. May God forgive us and bring us into a healthier place in the next 100 years.
May God give us all humble hearts and gracious attitudes so that we can love and receive others and each other with the same grace that he extended to us at the cross when his heart was torn out so that we could be forgiven at the highest cost imaginable.
Peace.
Summary is very much “on spot” with my impressions also. Appreciate the reflections.
Wade:
I would agree with your observations, and would ask the question, “Is there hope?” I am blessed to be in a church that doesn’t give a lot of attention to all the issues. Many of our members do not have a restoration / heritage background so all of this sounds silly to them. The longer I am away from it, the sillier it sounds to me as well.
I’d agree “generally” with your assesment with one caveat. In seemingly every church there is a WIDE assortment of opinions about all these matters. I am at a church that many might consider “restorationist” if you talked to some of our members. But the theological diversity is vast. I diverge greatly from the “traditional” or “restorationist” views. Some folks might wish to have me run out of town on a rail if they knew where I stood on some issues, but there is a significant portion of our membership that would agree with me for the most part. I think many churches and many individuals are currently in flux as they grow in their maturity. I am personally and wholeheartedly a heritage type person, but I even have some questions that might have me labeled as a heretic even in a heritage church. So I don’t know how easy it would be to classify churches based on those categories.
Wade,
I think you are correct with your assessment as it relates to a cappella music but I think you would find much more conformity as it relates to the Lord’s Supper. It seems to me that the music issue has become much more divisive in the last several years. When I was a kid we clapped our hands all the time in children’s worship (if you’re happy and you know it). A few years ago we had some folk who were long time members at our congregation leave because the kids were clapping. I guess you can still be happy, you’re just not allowed to know it. At the recent FHU lectureship I heard instrumental music referred to as “sin.” When I was growing up, it fell along the lines of “example” or if you were really conservative, “necessary inference.” I even heard a well known preacher a few years ago say that we are “commanded to sing a cappella.” Why has this has been elevated to the highest echelons of scripture?
Wade, I think your observations have merit. The only I would take issue with is that I don’t want the group you’ve labeled as “restorationist” to have a monopoly on restorationist language. In my own estimation (and this is part of a project I’m working on), the slice of churches you’ve defined as “restorationist” are only committed to a narrow version of restoration, one I would argue is ironically not present in the scriptures. I don’t want to see “heritage” churches jettison a kind of restorationist language like many Disciples’ churches did in the 20th century simply because the one version on offer was pathetic. I want us to redefine what it means to be restorationist.
Thanks for your continuing prods for us to think deeper.
Chad–I hear you and I agree. I think our emphasis has been on restoring the wrong things. In the first draft of this post, I used the label “pattern-restorationist” for the first category of churches, but it seemed a bit too clunky. I might should have left it that way.
Wade, I think you have a really good pulse on what all is transpiring amongst “us”. My observation from traveling all across the western part of the US is that the group you call “restorationist” tend to be MUCH more institutional minded. Meaning, every view passes thru a “church of Christ” filter……therefore leading to an institutional mindset. “Heritage” churches have a filter too (it’s impossible NOT to have one) but it seems to be based more on scripture than tradition. Those are just generalities, but that is what I have observed in my travels.
DU
Wade, I agree that you’ve got a good idea on that the split has already happened. I do wonder what further ramifications it will have on the fellowship.
If people are interested Adam Ellis and I have started a podcast called Postrestorationist Radio. A couple of weeks ago, we discussed an idea similar to this split in an episode called Fellowship. And this week, we talked about the Christian Churches/Churches of Christ reunification attempts. We’d to get other people’s thoughts on what we’re talking about.
Thanks.
I’m not sure what so many generalizations are suppose to prove or establish for the discussion. None of these generalizations fit my experience in the church of Christ even being it as Wade called it from the “restorationist” view point. I came out of the Baptist faith and came to the church in large part due to the faithful patience of my wife (who was at the time my girlfriend). I take great joy in the simple view and simple worship that allows me to meditate and consider the work of my Savior why I concentrate on the words that extend from my heart to my lips. I don’t find the need to have a piano or a christian rock band stir my heart to praise, I find my heart rejoices in the things of my Savior and I don’t need such window dressing. For this I am a “restorationist Christian,” I’m not familiar with such a term, I simply prefer Christian and I do the best I can to walk worthy of such a name.
On the issue of instruments and other “silence” issues, we fundamentally disagree. See I find assuming what God would be pleased with or not pleased with as dangerous ground to walk. I don’t pretend to know or understand the very mind of God as though I would be His counsel. So for my simple mind I like sticking close to the shore and with what is spoken. I believe it was Moses who said the things that have been revealed belong to us but the secret things belong to God (Deut 29:29) Anyway I find the issue plays out this way from me:
1. Did God ask us to use an instrument to praise Him? No
2. Did He command us to use an instrument? No
3. Do I need to use and instrument to please Him? No
4. Is there any examples either in scripture or early church writers us such being used? No
So for me at best an instrument is uneeded and unneccessary and at worse is “strange” worship (Lev 10). I agree with a post made in another thread, that is if you enjoy the instruments and leadership of the “Christian Church” why not simply join the Christian Church why try to convert everyone in the churches of Christ to your set of beliefs even while accussing us and ripping us for the same?
Nick,
The back and forth arguments of silence have been around for a long time. I appreciate your heart on the matter. I know that people of all sorts, types, and churches can worship God according to their tradition and please God, because we all fall under his grace. Praise God for his indescribable gift!
Using the silence argument and in all fairness we could add to your question list:
1. Did God command us to have communion every week? No
2. Did God command us to have four part harmony and song books? No
3. Did God command us to build milllion dollar church buildings? No
4. Did God command us to hire a church staff and pay them thousands of dollars? No
5. Did God command us to organize our worship and conduct Bible classes with one person lecturing and everybody else listening? No
I think you can see how this argument from silence quickly crumbles.
From my perspective Lev. 10 has been one of the most abused texts in the Bible. I find that we most often conclude that “strange” worship is worship that “other people” do that displeases God.
God bless you in your search for Him and may God bless us all as we humbly seek to serve him.
Steve,
You said it well… I won’t add to it. Great post.
Hey Steve,
I don’t know why you decided to come after me personally but so beit. I simply spoke my heart, opinion and study on the matter. i guess I just had to be set straight on the matter though… right? I mean and we are the argumentative ones? LOL couldn’t help myself.
Anyways I disagree with your examples and feel I must defend myself since you simply disregarded my study in the matter(oh boy here we go).
1. The Lord’s supper is not commanded in a thus saith the Lord, I grant you that. However it is instituted by Christ, spoken of in Acts 2 that they continued in it, spoke of as the reason they were coming together in Acts 20 to “break bread.” Spoken of in great detail for its purpose and proper taking off in 1 cor 10 and 11. To compare the two to me is reaching for straws. A lot is said about the Lord’s Supper in the New Testament and we have active examples in the text to support its use in the 1st century church. there is no such weight for instruments. please give me a single verse reference that talks to musical instruments in the NT. Any? Just one?
2. No he didn’t command us to have 4 part harmony and song books. Where I attend there maybe be many people that can sing in harmony but most of us sing the best we can which is off key and beautifully so for the melody is from the heart and the sining is not intended to entertain. As far as songbooks go, hopefully you have better arguments then that. The justification for instrumental music is because we use songbooks? Does a song book hold a tune, does the sound of a songbook add to or take awy from the melody of the singing? Does God hear the entwined melody of the pages of the songbook in our singing?
3. On the church buildings. i don’t advocate such. A building is a helpful tool but unless you are offering the building to God in worship I don’t see how this example fits. nonetheless if a church building offended the conscience i would be all for meeting in homes or by the river or where else. if you instrument violates the conscience of those about you would you lay them down? Still again the bible speaks to multiple places where they came together to worship, showing us that the place is a matter of choice. they met at the Temple, Paul preached in synagogues, public squares, city gates, by the river, in homes. Where again is the weight for instruments. Where in the biblical text is such gievn examples for us to infer that God meant for freedom in music.
4. Hmm hire a church staff, no i don’t see a command for such. but I do see Paul speaking of a right for those who preache the gospel to live by the gospel. And I also see the mention of elders reciving some type of compensation. I’m not altogether convinced that church staffs aren’t an addition.
5. Again on organization much is said for things to be done “orderly.” Whether it is the discussion on the Lord’s supper in 1 Cor 11 or it is the discussion of speaking church behavior reference of the chaos in Corinthian assemblies and asked they speak one at a time. Still yet again we have been commanded to speak, preach and teach. We have been asked to play an instrument.
This is long but since you engaged me i don’t apologize for defending the hope that is within me. Let’s look at your hermentuetic of silence is freedom and how quickly it crumbles.
1. Is it ok to apponit city cardinals. maybe setup a pope at tulsa or at nashville. the Scriptures didn’t say we can’t. Where is the thus saith the lord though shall not appoint cardinals or popes?
2. Can we add milk and cookies to the Lord’s Supper? Doesn’t say though shall not do it. Its silent on milk and cookies, they may encourage my heart and soul everyone likes a good cookie and some milk.
3.Would you be alright with adding apecial robes for the preacher, dressing them in royal garbs and such? How bout we burn incense and have candle lighting cermonies? Is that good and pleasant in the Lord’s sight. he didn’t forbid such did he?
4. For that matter would it be alright to have animal sacrifices not for atoning sin of course. but what if we said we were going to meet every sabath and burn a calf to the glory of God. Where has he forbid such. he tells the former purpose for such sacrfices no longer exist but we’ll just give them new purposes, is that ok with you? Would you fellowship then?
yes the freedom in silence is such a more harmonious hermenuetic.
Well the above didn’t come out as originally hoped. lots of typos and not with sense of attitude I actually had in writing it. I dont’ want this to digress into a back and forth but the short bit of that proves why this “unity” movement can not suceed in uniting in disagreements. We fundamentally disagree on the way to interpret silence as well as example.
Though you acuse us who preach in the churches of Christ or as Wade called us the “restorationist” bunch of being intolerant and too argumentative as soon as my post was seen the first reply to it is to show the thinking to be off the mark in the commentors view. This platform cannot serve to unify. Anyway I’ve learned a lot about the way certain segements of the brotherhood think and certainly have learned from my experience and reading the posts on this site over the past week but am more convinced having been here that unity is not the true motivation for some, acceptance is. The desire to have the churches of Christ say “we are wrong” and you “are right.”
I believe the truth has nothing to hide and fair and honest debate is the only way to come to unity on any subject. I wish you all the best and hope for the kingdom’s sake these pushes for unity will be met with open debate so that we can come to the same mind on these issues rather than simply ignoring which obviously (as much as this is often framed as one sided) neither side can actually do.
Nick,
I hope you read the first paragraph of my comments. I in no way intended to “go after you” as you stated it. If you took it that way, I apologize. My point is that the points you are making and others are making are points of human interpretation. Music, when we take the Lord’s Supper, hire or don’t hire staff, use buildings or don’t use buildings are matters of opinion.
There are numerous religious traditions that have learned to get along together and work together without sacrificing their uniquenesses. Churches of Christ could be active participants in a greater work for good and I am thankful are in many places. God’s kingdom is much larger than the restoration movement as church history bears out in the 1820 years before its existence.
Also, nowhere in my post(s) have I called for churches of Christ to become Independent Christian Churches or vice versa. Time will tell if churches of Christ can survive. Like most sects that become denominations, churches of Christ are going through decline. My own personal opinion is that the churches of Christ resistance to healthy change and lack of connection with our culture (not acquiescing to culture but connecting as Paul did ?when in Rome . . . ) may eventually lead to its further decline or may serve as a catalyst for healthy change.
I’m not accusing anyone . . . I have no interest in that sort of unChristian behavior. Assessing motives is a dangerous business. I can’t speak for all who “speak” here, but I have a burning desire that all of God’s children love each other and work together for the expansion of God’s Kingdom work.
I fully agree with you about the truth having nothing to fear from investigation and discussion. What is true will stand and what is false will fall. Gamaliel had it right all along.
God bless you my brother and all who enter here.
Peace.
I wanted to leave this alone but…
1. I don’t see the church of Christ as a “sect” or a “denomination.” Some cheap shots there to throw into a comment you end with “peace”
2. Who decided that churches of Christ are “unhealthy.” Again the idea that numerical growth is an indicator of spiritual growth. And yet again a seemingly biased look at the affaires and happenings of the church. What about India, Africa where the churches of Christ are exponetially expanding or is numerical growth in the US the only indicator of what is “healthy.”
3. How do you know the additions which you advocate are “healthy?” Where has the mind of God been revealed on the issue? How do we know what will be pleaseing or not pleasing to him if he has not revealed such? Even if silence doesn’t exclude I’m not convinced that it gives license.
4. I don’t buy the whole culture argument. it seems to me the church in the first century stood out of its culture didn’t blend into it, they were accused of “turning the world upside down”. And to this end the Jews and the pagans used musical instruments in their worship, so why didn’t the NT christians use them or atleast no example or record of such. So why in the 1st century being surrounded by musical instruments did they not use them? then what has changed for us to use them for the reason they surround us? And what makes a lack of accepting instruments of all of sudden unhealthy?
5. I’m glad you kept making mention to the Lord’s Supper so that those on the outside looking in understand that this is more than about musical instruments as it is so often framed and it is more than issues of silence but issues of example as well.
6. I would debate your 1820 years comment. I argue that the new testament church existed, often in the shadows but still existed in the 1820 years (as you say) before the “restoration movement.” There is evidence to support such as well.
Besides the jabs in the side I do appreciate your later comments agreeing that the truth has nothing to hide. So may be you will help to advocate open discussion on the issue even with those who “disagree?” May be Tulsa and other meetings would be willing to invite those who oppose the method of unity proposed to take the floor at their workshops and explain why they do so, afterall the truth has nothing to hide. Men of equal reputation on the otherside of the issue. How can you have good honest open debate when the speakers all on one side of the issue?
Nick,
You said, “So why in the 1st century being surrounded by musical instruments did they not use them?”
Do you really want an answer to that or will the answer matter? Do you already know but are just trying to make a predetermined point?
Please note that in synagogue worship the Jews never used instruments but I assume you were referring to the Temple when you said the Jews used instruments.
I believe we are actually finding early churches that DID use instruments.
Zwingli was a “non-instrument” restorationist, but I find him being the most consistent with his hermeneutic (which I believe Churches of Christ follow closer than the Campbell’s and Stone) because he took Eph. 5:19 to its fullest conclusion and eliminated any singing in worship because it said to “make music in your hearts”, not out loud. This is one of the flaws in the CENI hermeneutic. It looks for rules and lists where none were written.
Jesus’ rules were this: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on these.
So I guess Jack Black didn’t invent inward singing, did he?
I’d love to see the evidence of early churches using instrumental music. Could you site a website or a work or something. I’m most curious to this statement as I would assume such wouldn’t be made in a discussion unless you had sources to back it up.
Also even if you were to make such a claim of singing only in the heart did not Paul and Silas sing in Jail? You have an example that refutes that in scripture. Give me one example of a NT christian playing an instrument, just one and I would gladly admit I am wrong.
Whew… It’s hard to keep a healthy conversation on track. And y’all have to admit that it’s hard to know a person’s heart when you’re reading a comment on a blog! So, we do the best we can.
I think the biggest success of the recent attempts at unity will be in getting SOME people to consider another way of thinking (not another way of believing!). It’s foolish to think we’d all ever agree and the conversations above prove that. Some people will be able to take this step and others won’t. All deserve loving acceptance and patience.
We just need to learn how to disagree with each other… That’s the road less traveled b/c it’s more difficult and longer. It’s a lot easier to stick to defending a belief than it is to accept the fact that there are others who have gone through rigorous prayer to the same God and analysis of the scriptures and just plain come to a different conclusion.
I’LL BE SO HAPPY WHEN WE CAN MOVE PAST THESE CONVERSATIONS! We can’t skip this step though. “I am right and you are wrong” will not cut it any longer. How ’bout this:
I am right.
You are different.
We are all wrong. (just how much so will be revealed one day).
We all do the best we can and lean on our graceful Father.
Too simple, I know. But it’s a start!
Ok–I’m starting to rethink my position on Church of Christ argumentativeness. Maybe it’s not as prevalent as I thought. š
Angie–great comment. Thank you.
Give a Bible to someone who has NEVER read one and tell them to get back with you when they are done. When they come back, ask them what they saw as the major themes of God’s word. I’ll go out on a limb and say that music in worship WON’T be one of them.
God deliver us,
DU
Amen, DU.
Wade I assume (bad practice I know), that your rethinking church of Christ argumentativeness was sarcastic, I guess you can never escape a reputation. Not sure why when I discuss an issue its argumentative but when other discuss and issue they aren’t… oh well it is what it is. Anyone that knows me in person knows that I’m one that will sit at the table with nearly anyone and discuss openly issues, i don’t seclude myself from debate but i do speak freely what I believe and what I hold faithfully. I thought you guys wanted open and honest debate my apologizes I will remove myself from the dialogue. I have spent more time than i ever desired on this subject anyways, God Bless you all.
Wow
Show me NT Christians who do anything the way we do them.
We have “innovated” all our practices in the 1 hour on Sunday morning.
If Paul sang in prison….was that worship? Why don’t we meet in prisons on Sunday mornings then.
I do not “save” everything I read, so I do not currently have the articles that had the statements I made in hand…I would have to search for them. My point is that most of the things we do as Christians on Sunday morning are NOT found in scripture.
I don’t think Wade is singling anyone out…I believe my post here is also argumentative because we are “debating” our positions.
I can say this:
We are told to sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs…
The psalms mention playing instruments…
Therefore, we could play instruments…
How come we don’t sing the psalms anymore? Did God command us to stop? It’s in the same verse which we get our “authority” for a cappella only. Is that cultural? Who decided? Why is it cultural? This is why I have problems with the CENI hermeneutic. It places laws where grace has been substituted for us by Jesus. Where is this hermeneutic in the NT?
Hi Wade,
Good discussion. I would suggest that your generalization about the Independents being more conservative is open to debate. While this may be a regional thing, or a matter of what college you attended, I believe,in many respects, that our churches are a bit less conservative (and no I am not thinking about the non-issue of instrumental music).
I agree that to the uninitiated, our discussions must sound quite bizarre–especially if their only matrix for interpreting what we are saying is the NT! The reason I gave up on the whole instrumental music discussion after 20 of calling those who used them heretics was the revelation that the topic is totally irrelevant (from a strictly biblical point of view). The historical angle (i.e., from the early church fathers) is laughable. If you read their writings you find that they were whacked out on all sorts of stuff (such as when it was appropriate to take a bath!). So while it is interesting to note what they thought about things, it has no persuasive force on what I should do.
I think all of this discussion is certainly good, however, while we discuss and figure out who we are, many in our communities do not see thriving, vital congregations, reaching the lost and meeting their spiritual needs. This is where we have gotten off track in my opinion. Lynn
Perhaps a reading of I Corinthians 8 is in order here?
Paul was willing to give up eating meat to keep his brother. Following that example, why not give up IM to keep unity with a brother?
Unless, as someone said above, it’s less about “unity” than “getting my way”…
I’m closing the comments on this post. The discussion is WAY OFF TOPIC and we’re rehashing VERY OLD arguments that aren’t going to move the discussion forward in any way whatsoever.