I thought summers were supposed to bring about a slower pace to ministry. So far I’ve been running at breakneck speed.
Rather than give you the usual post about how I’m too busy too blog (I promise never to do that here.), I’d like to point you over to the piece that Jim Henderson has written over at Off the Map.
Looking for the lost in the Bible belt
By Jim Henderson
I was recently in Nashville with Off The Map. As many of you know, part of our presentation involves interviewing non Christians (a.k.a. “The” Lost). Our motive is to ascertain how we?re coming across in our attempt to convert them. I had a very edutaining experience I want to tell you about.
Three months before we headed to Nashville I put the word out to several of my contacts in Nashville so we could find 3 lost people to interview. For one reason or another they were not able to find any lost people who were willing to talk with me about their lostness. Hmmm, I knew this was the Bible belt but I?d underestimated just how tightly that belt was cinched.
I asked several young people ? van drivers, waitresses, etc if they were Christians- O Yes!! (I sensed they were lying but didn?t have time to break them down). In Seattle a random young person would almost never self identify as a Christian., Here in the Bible belt I suspected that these folks were really identifying as members of the Christian culture rather than as practicing Christians. On I went in my search until I finally asked my daughter who had lived in Nashville if she had any non Christian friends. She led me to the person I would ultimately interview ? my one lost person interview.
Kathy is 34 and works as an oncology nurse. She was raised in a Christian home (Presbyterian) and accepted Christ at church camp as a kid. She continued to go to church and follow Christ into early adulthood, never marrying. She now attends a Unity church because she finds it more accepting.
As I began the interview with Kathy most people in the room were wondering why I was talking with her, after all she sounds like a Christian, talks like a Christian and in spite of my assertions that she was lost ? she self identified as a Christian (just like almost everyone else in the Bible belt)
Then I asked Kathy to tell me about her issues with church not being accepting. At which point she dropped the bomb. “Well”, “I?m gay”! The room fell silent as everyone rapidly retreated in their heads trying to figure out how they had thought she was a Christian in the first place.
She then went on to describe how hundreds of gay people were attending church in Nashville, never revealing their gay lifestyle. “They have those signs that say, Everybody Welcome” she said ? but I don?t know if they really mean it”. She recounted the painful experience of overhearing “on fire” Christians at her work (who don?t know she is gay) talking together about how the primary cause of all of the problems in the United States is homosexuality.
I then asked Kathy to tell us a little more about her work. She said, “I hold peoples hands as they?re dying and I pray for them, I really believe Jesus has called me into this kind of work”. “I feel very close to Jesus.”
The Q&A time was even more fun. A mainline pastor wanting to differentiate himself from the more narrow minded evangelicals told Kathy that his church was considering marrying gay people and asked what she thought about that. “I?m really not into all that gay rights political stuff” Kathy responded “I really think that marriage is still between a man and a woman.”
Finally a young man in his twenties wrapped it up by telling the Kathy and the audience this story. “When I came in here I was not really paying attention, I thought this was supposed to be an interview with a lost person but you didn?t sound lost to me. Then when you said you were gay, everything changed. Now I was even more confused. Then I had this thought ? If you had stood up and said “I?m a porn addict and a Christian” I would have said ? Yea that works for me. But when you said you were gay I couldn?t make the same allowances. I repent, I?m sorry for not giving you the same kind of mercy I would another person. I still don?t know if you are or aren?t a Christian (and I don?t know if I am) but I do have a lot to think about.”
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
Sometimes, as a part of a church leadership team, it becomes very easy to make large (and dangerous) assumptions about the people who regurlarly attend your church.
We get so caught up (and I’m pointing the finger at myself, here) in making sure that our worship services, programs, and other events run smoothly, that we gauge our success on ridiculous things like numbers and outward expressions.
This line of thinking allows for a broad range of people to come and be “happy” in our churches, and it is a constant trap of having a large group of people who assemble routinely.
The trigger point for me in this article was thinking that I have a lot of work to do in the way I interact with the people I see at my church every weekend. I shouldn’t asume that just because someone is faithful to our worship services does not mean that they are faithful to object of the worship itself.
While I hope that we have a lot of homosexuals who come into the doors of our church as guests, it is my prayer that we can be the body that Christ intended us to be, and truly love them into seeing the Truth.
The question remains, “Are we helping each other grow closer to our Lord and Savior?” Are our current structures and emphases fostering the intimacy that it takes to see this kind of transformation in individuals within our churches? I blogged about this a few months ago, and you can read it here.
Sometimes I think we forget the commandment is to “make disciples,” not “fill seats.”
Wasn’t she a Christian by virtue of the fact that she holds the hands of the sick and dying, and prays for them?
Interesting test of the group vs. belief-set standards.
Keith, I’m not sure I can go that far. Holding the hands of the dying and praying for them does not make one a Christian. It’s a nice thing to do, and something Jesus would have done, but it does not make one a Christian.
I feel the question is whether or not the porn addict, murderer, homosexual, gossip, fornicator, hater, or (insert sin here_____) admits to the impropiety of the particular sin and struggles with it, trying to repent from the lifestyle. To say “I’m a practicing homosexual, want to be a Christian and a practicing homosexual at the same time, and is that okay?” has only one answer: no.
The statement by the young man at the end of the session that we need to extend the same grace to everyone (the same grace that has been extended to us) is very true, and I think the point of the whole story. May we continually be reminded of that.
You may be right, dutro … but caring for and praying for the dying does make one Christ-like. Sometimes I’m not real clear on the difference.
And I’m not sure that I want to be.
“caring and praying for the dying does make one Christ-like..”
I absolutely agree. And probably closer to Christ than the judgemental souls who want to condemn that woman for her lifestyle choices without trying to help her out of that situation and without extending the grace we all have available.
My disagreement with the line of reasoning is that there are some things that, if not rising to the level of a requisite for being called a Christian, will at least follow as a result of truly SURRENDERING your life to Christ, and one of those things is turning your back on those things which are antithetical to his teaching. Homosexuality is condemned as a lifestyle just as surely as fornication, adultery, and lust, to name a few other sexually oriented choices, and murder, hatred, and greed, to name a few that are otherwise. One cannot say “I am a Christian to wants to keep on murdering,” etc, and that’s all I’m saying. If she is shopping around for the group who will tell her that it is okay, she will most certainly find that group. That don’t make it so.
Can one say “I am a Christian who wants to keep on lying”? Or “judging others”? I’m just curious why homosexuality is singled out for correction by so many of us Christian folks. Is it really the immoral equivalent of murder? More so than slander or gossip?
What specifically does Christ say about homosexuality?
Even through His Spirit and writers, how often does He address it in the epistles – as compared, say, to neglecting the poor or entertaining greed?
I’m concerned that homosexuality – and other items that are perceived as “big ticket” sins – might turn out to be the mote in someone else’s eye while I’m missing the plank in my own eye.
Of course you can’t say “I’m a Christian and I want to continue being a liar”. Or ANY other sin…..right? That is the point.
We all acknowledge that someone can NOT have a rebellious spirit if they want to be a true disciple. Dying to self means just that…DYING. It’s one thing to say “I am struggling with this sin, and I hope by the Grace of God to overcome the Evil one in this struggle”……….and another to say “this is who I am, and I am not going to try to overcome this sin in my life because that is who I am”. We wouldn’t accept that explanation from an adulterous person, would we? Jesus DID talk about sexual perversion and purity. He never talked about Tax Fraud either as a single topic…….but he talked about honesty. I admire and love this sister for her Christ-like servant heart and the ministry that she is doing. I just don’t want her to be in rebellion, just as I don’t want ME to be in rebellion or any of you to be either…..REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SIN IS. Make sense?
I’m just asking questions here. Y’all are making points.
But you’re avoiding most of the questions.
Would Kathy find a welcome in our churches? Under what conditions? “Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell”? Would our churches welcome an alcoholic who was not in a 12-step? A tax evader? A fault-finder? Someone who just cannot give up gossip?
Would we expect them all to quit cold-turkey and never, ever, ever fall into that old pattern of sin again? Would we pitch them out if they did?
Why do we insist that being a Christian excludes having an attitude of “that’s the way I am, I’m a Christian, so accept it!” when each and every one of us harbors at least one pet sin we cannot seem to give up and have the very same attitude toward it? You know what yours is/are; I know what mine are. When someone points it out, you can’t help but think of it.
We can judge actions for ourselves. We need to let God judge the hearts of others. Their attitudes may only be a front to hide the struggle going on in their hearts, and we owe them that benefit of the doubt because we want it for ourselves.
There are no perfect Christians, only perfected ones. We need Christ; we also need the companionship and acceptance of other imperfect-but-perfected people.
It may be out of place, but I remember an old story about a farmer who wanted to rent a stall at a thoroughbred track for his donkey and enter him in some races. “He’ll never win,” the track owner told him. “I know,” replied the farmer, “but I thought the company would do him good.”
Sorry. Tirade over. I’m a little sensitive here for people who need a welcome without judgment, just as I did 20+ years ago in the wake of my divorce.
Keith, I know your spirit and your focus, and am 100% with you. I’m not arguing with you. I was careful in my posts to say “practicing” and “lifestyle” and “struggling”. And in my congregation, a homosexual would be welcomed, IF they were wanting to do something about it. IF they are wanting to flaunt it and have it both ways, there would be the problem, (the congregations and mine) and that is what I am trying to say.
This particular struggle gets it from both sides: those that think it is a more grievous condition than they ought, and those that think it is nothing serious because of current PC. I think it is just like any other sin–mainly a condition of selfishness and nothing else. Anything that takes the place of a relationship with God is sin, idolatry, and therefore unacceptable to Him. The degree that this is taking the place of God is the same amount of seriousness with which we should judge it–no more, no less.
Okay, that’s enough from my corner, as well. I don’t think we are really arguing, but it’s not just semantics, either. I agree that we all have our own particular idolatry, and was trying to say that in my post. It ALL needs to come down.
Love you, bro. (In a platonic sort of way, of course)
don
My brother Keith, you asked the question about can a person say “I am a Christian who wants to keep on lying”. I gave an answer. You asked about Jesus addressing homosexuality……I thought I gave an answer. Was I suppose to answer them in a different way.
Homosexuality is not being singled out…….at least not by me. It’s not about the sin. It’s about the attitude TOWARDS that sin by the individual who is in that struggle. The sin is the least part of the issue, as far as I am concerned. And if I harbor an attitude that says “accept my sin, because that is who I am…..and I don’t want to overcome this struggle” then I hope you would address that with me. Why? Not because you are being judgemental, but because God calls us to more than that. I would expect you to love me that much. I would want Kathy to be welcome in our churches, regardless of her attitude when she came in. But, I would hope we would communicate to her that we were in prayer for her and in support for her to overcome her struggle with sin……no matter WHAT the sin was. As Max once said…..Jesus accepts us where he finds us, but will not allow us to stay there. He wants us to become more and more like him….daily. If I or you or Kathy or Tom Thumb wants to stay where we are, we are with the wrong group. And of course we don’t expect someone NOT to EVER sin again……who can say they have done that? In fact, it should be a given that people WILL mess up and fall down and get beat up again and again……and we will be there EVERY time to help them back up again, to repay them for the times they picked us up.
I’m not into judging hearts. I better not be. If I expose my heart to you, then I don’t view you as judging me.
Let me just share an eye-opener from a Chicago blogger who is a recovering alcoholic, turned down for ministry in the Catholic church and not completely at home in the Lutheran fellowship either: Just How Shocking Is The Gospel?.
This may not be canon, but I think he’s on to something.
Interesting discussion. My question for myself is do we require that to be Christian we all must recognize what we habitually do that is unChristlike. One might respond, but homosexuality is “obviously” wrong, which is how I always feel about the sins that another has and that I don’t, and never about my own blindspots.
Can a person have a blindspot toward a sin I see clearly, exhibit the inner working of the one Spirit, refuse to repent over that unrecognized sin (how would one repent over unrecognized sin?), and be “Christian?” If not, I don’t know if I’m Christian, because I don’t know what I don’t recognize in myself that is unChristlike (obviously!). God has been peeling me like an onion and I keep discovering new sins to repent of on a regular basis.
I’m not excusing sin, just thinking about the real process of inner transformation (not event) and not wanting to measure others in ways I don’t want to be measured.
Believers (seekers of Jesus) are Christians for me irrespective of how grace has to this point helped them master orthodoxy or orthopraxy. I don’t know who the real seekers are (know what is truly in the heart), so I take them at their word – and trust that “the One who began a good work in them will bring it to completion.”
Peace.
Wade,
I’m banking on the truth of your blog sub-title here, that without disagreement there can be no learning.
Keith, I understand your desire to extend grace to those we have neglected in the past. We have so much work to do in becoming the genuine presence of Christ in our world, and in that vein I am with you. But, brother, your comments and way of thinking do great harm to the kingdom of God. What you advocate, if I’m following you, misrepresents Christ, and in no way resembles how He treated the people he came across in His ministry. Yes, He was the ‘friend of sinners’. Yes He hung around those that needed Him the most. Yes He felt right at home being around sin burdened people. But in calling people to discipleship He always demanded the putting away of sin, the dying to self, and putting Him first.
“If you do not hate your father, mother, sister, brother… you cannot be my disciple.”
“Anyone who sets his hand to the plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom of God…”
“You must deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me…”
The whole “Counting the cost…” texts
Jesus never coddled people. Citizenship in the kingdom of God is free, but it is not easy nor is it without expectation. It is “advanced citizenship”. (See Michael Douglas’ speech to the press corp in The American President. “You’ve got to want it bad”.) He never said, “Oh, just give my any little bit of your life, put me in any place you want, hang on to whatever you want just so I have a part”. It would cheapen what He was about to do on the cross. He always demanded first place or no place. He always demanded total surrender of the will. Not perfection, but for His will to become their’s. That happens at conversion. That happens when you die to self and Christ takes up residency in your heart. It is not a process, something that you hope comes later. It’s what sets you apart from your old life. A new desire, a different direction of thought, seeking Christ’s will and not your own. A person who says to Christ I will follow you but I will not let ___________ go, whatever the blank is, Jesus would tell them you cannot be my disciple. It is an unsurrendered will.
The “re-telling” of the woman at the well totally misrepresents Christ. Coming away from that story saying “Hey, come follow Jesus and be gay too” misses what actually happened in the real story. She came away a believer. There is not a single place in the Bible where being a believer is characterized as anything close to celebrating sin, accepting sin, refusing to put sin away, having my sin and Jesus too. It is always about being set free from it and putting it away, grieving over it, not being mastered by it.
Our becoming the friend of sinners can never lead to the impression that somehow sin is OK. It just seems in our quest to deliver grace, we have lost the urgency to deliver people from their sin. Jesus came to proclaim freedom from it, both practice and penalty. It seems that should not be lost from our message.
OK. I can sleep now.
Brad,
I think my problem is that we take that approach with certain Big Sins. Just wondering, how many churches tell someone they’re not welcome because they keep putting their jobs or kids’ sports or personal financial security or any of hundreds of things before their walk with God? Usually it’s chalked up to either a difference of opinion or that the influence of the church body will help the person realize their pride. Homosexuality (and really most sexual sins) seems to be a particular sin that people are not allowed to have a difference of opinion on, despite everything being in scripture.
I’m not saying to condone it, to accept it as “doing the right thing as they see it,” no more than we should putting anything above God. But some posts here have indicated this particular stubborn pride would be a problem for their congregation, and most people can’t cast the first stone here.
The message I got from the re-telling wasn’t that Jesus condoned it, any more than he condoned the woman at the well’s behavior. But he doesn’t name him by it, he talks to the person, not the sin. He talks to a man who is homosexual/commits homosexual acts, not a Homosexual. Similarly, most congregations have learned tolerance by talking, for example, to a man who lies, not a Liar. Homosexuality and other activities outside the mainstream often become what we know people for (similar to Consorts With Sinners/Gentiles and Violates the Sabbath of Jesus’ time), and we need to treat them just like we do the Liars and Bad Tempers and Gossips and other sins that we’re so familiar and comfortable with.
Do my comments and questions (I don’t believe I’ve advocated much of anything here, so far! But I’m about to …) really do harm to the kingdom of God? Is homosexuality itself more or less of a sin than saying that nothing is wrong with it?
And I’m still waiting for the answer to the question: What did Jesus say about homosexuality?
If it is a sin, is it realistic to expect for it to immediately stop as a prerequisite to fellowship? How easy would it be for any of us to suddenly, permanently cease our sexual lifestyle? (It may be repulsive to us, but it is difficult to the one called to give it up!)
Shouldn’t our fellowships still be gatherings of sinners, many of whom are still willfully entertaining sin until the influence of others helps break down that willfulness?
I’m asking questions – loaded questions to be sure – but the reason I’m asking is because I still don’t believe we know why we believe what we believe about homosexuality – and I am unwilling to simply accept the answer “It’s just wrong – and it’s more wrong than most everything else that’s wrong.”
In the New Testament, there are three references: I Timothy 1:8-10, Romans 1:26-29, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. In the Old Testeament, there are two: Leviticus 18:22; and 20:13. (Maybe there are others, but they strike me as “iffy.” Let’s stick to the definitive ones. They’re sufficient.)
Now we can talk!
How is homosexuality any different from any other sexual sin? from any other sin of any kind?
If scripture doesn’t record Jesus even mentioning homosexuality, isn’t it safe to assume that He didn’t consider it significantly different? If it isn’t significantly different, do we as Christians have any license to treat it differently?
Keith and Charles,
Sorry I got in on this discussion a bit late, but it is a good and needed one for me.
I believe we are going to have some serious answering to do concerning our selectivity in the treatment of sinners. The consensus in blog land seems to be to lighten up on the mr. biggie in the same way we are easy on mr. small fry, for all sin is on an equal plane. And you are right. Why should homosexuality be treated any different. Maybe that’s where our problem has been. We let a brother get away with blatant greed, neglect, idol worship, _______ (insert small sin here) and only go after homosexuals, child abusers, divorced, _______ (insert big sin here). The answer, it seems to me, if we are going to treat them as Jesus would, is to call all people to account in regard to their sin, whether it’s the gossiper who can’t stop or the man who cheats on his wife. It is then that we will be dealing with people in a Christ-like manner.
I am believing more and more, I think it was a comment made by Greg Taylor some time ago, maybe not, that a surrendered, humble heart is the only prerequisite for following Christ. Their life may contain sin, but their heart is intent on being transformed into the image of Christ. That’s my problem with an adulterer, gossiper, liar, homosexual, anyone who says this is the way I am, I will not seek change, and God will accept me. It’s not the heart that Jesus is seeking. But, anyone, and I mean anyone, who is seeking transformation, we, like Jesus, must accept and put up with their stumbling behavior, just like Christ puts up with ours.
I don’t know, Keith, I have lots of sin, but not any that I don’t grieve over every time I commit one of them. I have never demanded from Christ, “I refuse to change, accept me as I am!” I don’t have the heart, literally. I bet you don’t either. We must not give people that impression who are seeking Christ. That is why I said it would do great harm to the kingdom because we would be misrepresenting our king. They would be entering the kingdom under false pretenses.
About your question, during His ministry, Jesus saying nothing about homosexuality says nothing about homosexuality, either putting it on a higher plane or lowering it. If all Scripture is God-breathed (please don’t tell me you have a problem with that :), it was His Spirit, Christ’s Spirit who gave us Genesis, Lev, Romans, Timothy, etc. I think Jesus says quite a bit on it. What don’t you get? What is there to miss that it is contrary to the will of God? Just curious.
Finally, I think one of the things that gnaws on me as I get into this emerging church stuff, is that no one seems to want take a stand, have a conviction, hold a belief. I know the reason is that the stands we have taken in the past have been the wrong stands. But the only stand that anyone seems to want to take is that I will not take a stand. I will not tell you what I believe. All I will do is answer your questions with more questions and you will have to figure out what I believe from those. I know it is a good heart that says I don’t have all the answers. It is a good heart that is still willing to seek the will of God in his or her life. That’s one of the things I like about the EC. But gee whiz, can’t somebody take a stand on something??? :^)
Peace to all!
Brad,
I couldn’t agree with the last paragraph more in regard to ’emerging church stuff’ (not just relating to this specific topic). In my opinion, I think it’s a cop out. It’s safe not to take a stand. It’s safe to be mysterious (e.g., ‘answer’ questions with questions) and hope that your audience equates ‘mystery’ with ‘wisdom’.
Please.
(I know that at times Jesus responded to questions from the Pharisees and Sadducees with questions, but obviously he knew their questions weren’t from pure motives.)
Okay, no more questions. Homosexuality is sin. It’s wrong. It’s also wrong to treat one sinner differently from another. It’s also wrong to expect people to clean up their act totally before they’re welcome inside our assemblies. It’s wrong to judge their hearts. It’s not our place. It’s God’s. He’s qualified and we’re not.
Brad, I congratulate you on never having demanded from Christ, “I refuse to change; accept me as I am.” I’m glad you haven’t had to hurdle that. Others have. Some may spout the line, or whisper it. And it may be a lie. It may be a way to seek approval rather than forgiveness. Forgiveness is hard for some people to ask for. Change is hard for all of us. And changing sexual lifestyle is a big, big change. It’s really hard for us to know what’s going on inside of another’s heart, even from their words or their actions.
Scripture is God-breathed. It talks about homosexuality five times, for certain. I “got” all of them. If you missed that, you didn’t read my comments closely.
There! I’ve taken a stand. My stand just disagrees with yours.
I ask questions so people will ask themselves what they believe and why. I’m not a member of a church that would describe itself as “emerging,” but I imagine that’s why they ask questions. I suspect it’s why Jesus asked questions. Glenn, asking questions is not a cop-out. It’s a gentler way of persuading people. You guys obviously prefer statements of position.
Here they are.
Keith,
I was mistaken to make a blanket statement like this: “In my opinion, I think it?s a cop out.” I’ll restate: “In my opinion, at times, it is a cop-out.” Also, at times, your statement is correct: “asking questions is not a cop-out. It?s a gentler way of persuading people.”
I just prefer that if people have positions they state them, rather than me having to guess . That is all. IMHO, many that ‘answer’ questions with questions do have positions but refuse to state them for whatever reason.
It’s unfortunate that many associate “stating a position” as less gentle than asking questions. I can understand that because of the way/attitude so many have ‘stated’ their position in the past. Making your position known has doesn’t have to be equated with non-gentile OR threatening OR judgmental behavior. Jesus seemed to have figured out how to do it, it’s just difficult for me/us.
I still assert that we/me are at times afraid to state our/my position (whatever) because of many reasons — fear of rejection, fear of categorization, fear of being accused of being judgmental, fear of being challenged, etc. — many of which, unfortunately, may be well-founded because of past experiences.
Personally, I don’t make my position known nearly enough. But I pray that when I am doing so, I will do so with genuine love, without selfish motives (pride, desire to be ‘right’, whatever) or a judgmental attitude. I’m sure that I, like many, haven’t done this in the past and I’m sorry for it.
Keith,
I appreciate all your thoughts you have shared, not only here but in your blog as well. I hope you don’t mind me calling you out on some things. I think in your sidebar on your blog you said that you won’t settle for evasive answers. I am just trying to do the same. We just shouldn’t have to work so hard to get to the conclusion that I agree with everything you have just said. I know the journey is good, but all journeys need to end sometime. The purpose of questions is to find answers. It just seems few are interested in answers, that’s all. Answers are good. Truth is good. There might even be a few absolutes floating around out there somewhere.
Keep the faith, brother. Our journeys are more similar than you know.
God does speak out against homosexuality. He also orders us to return land to debtors/sellers every 7 years. And to avoid certain foods. People He directly chose to be spiritual leaders were polygamists and murderers.
Part of following God is interpreting scripture to guide our lives. If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong but still participates, that is holding out against God. But what if someone doesn’t see scripture as forbidding it? What if they think it’s just a reference to contemporary society, which I assume is why we write off other verses in the Bible? This is where I think Big Taboos come into play, what we see as difference of interpretation vs. EVIL.
From what I read in scripture, I believe God is against homosexuality. I am open, however, to see what science actually comes out with – not behavioral studies, but if we find that it is completely genetic, that homosexuals are biologically forced to be such, I would change my mind because I don’t believe God creates us to be that hardwired into sin. You can call that wishy-washy if you’d like – I’m trying to maintain an open mind that God’s never done talking to us, and we have far too many examples of people in the last 2000 years convinced they knew everything in God’s mind.
I do tend to avoid declarations like that because they tend to end conversations – people think that everything’s set in stone and there’s no point in further discussion. I’m glad to see how this blog and its comments have gone, and hope we can continue to use our understandings and opinions as starting points rather than destinations.
Uggh!!
Please tell me I’ll get some kind of response beyond “Uggh!!”.
Sorry, Charles. I was a bit pressed for time when I read your entry. I’m just a bit puzzled with your approach to God and His revelation. You believe homosexuality is unacceptable to God because of your understanding of His word. But if science somehow proved that it is biological, then you would cease believing God and what He has said about it?
Just some thoughts:
1. No credible study or experiment has ever proved that all homosexual behavior is based on a “gene”.
2. The text is not unclear on how God feels about it.
3. Even if there were some homosexual gene that could be passed along, it would not exempt people from living a sexually pure life. I do believe certain type of behavior can somehow be passed along to offspring. Alcoholism, drug addiction, violent tendencies seem to sometimes get handed down from generation to generation, maybe even on a genetic level, but that does not exempt them from responsible living. It may be an extra hurdle to jump over, but we would never say “Oh well, he brutally abused his wife, but it’s ok. He’s just that way.” He still has to be accountable to what is right.
4. I think sin affects our world in so many ways, the above being one. That should not take anything away from God and what He requires and desires for mankind. Sin destroys life, it draws people away from God and his will for them. I just don’t think scientists should dictate for you the meaning and validity of God’s revelation.
“From what I read in scripture, I believe God is against homosexuality. I am open, however, to see what science actually comes out with – not behavioral studies, but if we find that it is completely genetic, that homosexuals are biologically forced to be such, I would change my mind because I don?t believe God creates us to be that hardwired into sin.”
Science? Science is often not correct. Look at darwinism. Carbon dating. Scientists won’t ever prove that homosexuality is genetic. Do you know why? Because there are very few scientific “laws”. Just lots and lots of theory. Liberals around the world spout the “facts of evolution” when its nothing but a theory that has never been proven. Homosexuality being proven to be genetic will never occur.
-Clarke.